tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post2789808220016854256..comments2024-03-18T09:09:41.484-07:00Comments on Critical Damage: Feeling Every PunchBrendan Keoghhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01772283679871140397noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-54455206948706459942022-06-10T03:56:37.129-07:002022-06-10T03:56:37.129-07:00When you are upset with something that is out of y...When you are upset with something that is out of your control, you will feel like you need to destroy anything and everything that you can control and desroy just to feel like your in control again. soul healinghttps://akashicknowing.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-66008471169926752072010-08-31T23:39:18.533-07:002010-08-31T23:39:18.533-07:00Oh dear! Complete mental stuff up on my behalf. So...Oh dear! Complete mental stuff up on my behalf. Somehow I did some weird logic thing in my head which made you the same person. >_><br /><br />Sorry, Ryan! I will fix the post now so I am not putting words in your mouth.Brendan Keoghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772283679871140397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-91975532314138055692010-08-31T23:37:07.682-07:002010-08-31T23:37:07.682-07:00I should point out that I didn't post those co...I should point out that I didn't post those comments. I only responded to 'Shape Of Games To Come' who actually made those comments you've quoted in this post.Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-63970146996095012422010-08-29T03:06:05.172-07:002010-08-29T03:06:05.172-07:00One problem I often have with consequentiality is ...One problem I often have with consequentiality is tied to intentionality. When I accidentally run over a civilian with my car in <i>Boiling Point</i>, or an ally foolishly runs in front of my flying arrow in <i>Oblivion</i>, the consequences are the same as if I had intended those actions. Obviously it's very hard for the game to know whether I did or not, but I think consequences caused by a controller fumble (or worse, by careless AI) aren't really on the same level as consequences resulting from a conscious action.<br /><br />Every consequence has an antecedent, and while you've been talking about in-game and real-world consequences of in-game antecedents, there are also real-world antecedents with in-game consequences. Most of the time that's desirable: the in-game consequence of the real-world antecedent of pressing a button is the avatar performing an action, without which there would be no game. But the examples I gave above are where it gets out of control and breaks the fiction. I think you could almost add "and vice versa" to the idea that the real-world consequences of in-game antecedents should be somehow limited.Allan Weallanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08011415024382944095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-35988169941421650352010-08-26T15:52:56.261-07:002010-08-26T15:52:56.261-07:00Hey Allan, thanks for the insights.
Increasing pl...Hey Allan, thanks for the insights.<br /><br />Increasing player responsibility is totally what this is all about for me. In fact, I used to toss around that term a while back. I may have shouted 'Yes! Exactly!' out loud to some extent when I read that in your comment. :)<br /><br />For me, the responsibility isn't so much that the player must be forced to act a certain way. Rather, the player <i>should</i> be able to refuse to co-operate with the story, but they must accept responsibility for the consequences of that refusal.<br /><br />For instance, one of the main complaints people have with GTA4 is that they feel no sympathy for Niko because of the horrendous acts they committed outside of the missions. People say things like "How I am I meant to feel sympathy for this guy who just ran over a dozen joggers in Central Park?". I think that shows a complete lack of player responsibility. A responsible player would either a) not run over a dozen joggers, or b) accept that that was their own choice, and not the games.<br /><br />This isn't a waterproof argument, though. GTA4 does at many times require the player to break with the character being built (as does Uncharted 2, Gears of War, and practically every game ever). Others would argue that, ideally, the narrative <b>should</b> adjust to take in the murder of those joggers. <br /><br />But personally, I think if the player wishes to experience the story the game has crafted for them, they have a responsibility to act a certain way--but that should not prevent them from just screwing around if that is all they really want.Brendan Keoghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772283679871140397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-44739265412675886122010-08-26T07:30:51.069-07:002010-08-26T07:30:51.069-07:00That's an interesting point. It leads onto som...That's an interesting point. It leads onto some other questions.<br /><br />I know a lot of times I'll be faced with a choice and feel like I'm inadequately informed of what the consequences might be, so I'll save before making the choice, and if I don't like the consequences, reload. Of course, I feel guilty for that, because it represents a refusal on my part to co-operate with the consequentiality of the story.<br /><br />When we talk about abolishing player privilege, I think we're really talking about increasing player responsibility, but where does that responsibility lie? Does it lie in-game, such that the player has to take responsibility for their actions, or does it lie in the meta-game, meaning that the player has to be disciplined about co-operating with the consequentiality of the game? To put it another way, is it my responsibility to co-operate with the game, or is it the game's responsibility to make me co-operate?<br /><br />And if it's the game's responsibility, should the game implement that by preventing me from not co-operating (e.g. by not allowing me to load from in-game, or by delaying the consequences of a choice so that reloading is less of a trivial thing) or by making me want to co-operate (somehow?)?<br /><br />How informed should the player be ahead of time of what consequences an action will have? I'd guess no information turns a choice into a meaningless and arbitrary guess, while complete information is probably no fun, either.Allan Weallanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08011415024382944095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3402915042780490574.post-44792626902375198972010-08-25T21:32:46.567-07:002010-08-25T21:32:46.567-07:00Not to nitpick, but I'd point out that destroy...Not to nitpick, but I'd point out that destroying Megaton *does* in fact remove access to the quests there, except in certain circumstances.Adrian Foresthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06664282573320076824noreply@blogger.com